I'm Sabrina Baker, and today I'm sharing what 14 years in small business HR taught me about surviving and fixing toxic cultures. And do you know what's ironic about that? Some of the most toxic workplaces I've ever seen were also functional. Revenue was strong, turnover wasn't terrible. On the surface, everything looked fine. But underneath, people were surviving, not thriving. Everyone walked on eggshells, avoided conflict, and covered for leadership's blowups like it was part of their job. And I've learned that there is a difference between dysfunction and toxicity. And I've also learned how hard it is to fix either one, especially when you're the HR person without the power to actually change it. Welcome back to the HR Connection, the podcast for those managing human resources in a small environment, 1 to 500 employees. So let's start there, the difference between dysfunction and toxicity, because not every messy culture is a toxic one. Dysfunction is when the systems are broken. Poor communication, unclear expectations, inconsistent policies. It's chaotic, but it's fixable as long as leaders are on board to fix it. Toxicity is when the people are broken, or more accurately, when trust is. It's manipulation, fear, favoritism, blame. It's the kind of environment that slowly convinces good people that they are the problem. I worked with one company where the owner's mood dictated everyone's day. If he came in smiling, the office buzzed. If he slammed his door, you could hear the collective inhale from the hallway. That's not dysfunction, that's toxicity. And the difference matters because the playbook changes. You can train dysfunction. It usually turns around with more structure, more communication, and more consistency. You cannot train toxicity. You have to diagnose it, name it, and decide if it can even be managed. I mentioned earlier that some toxic companies survive. They might even grow and be thriving. I've walked into new clients before and quickly learned that the culture was quite toxic, and yet the company was growing. How does that happen? Normally, it's because their people, especially mid-level managers, compensate. The direct supervisors protect their teams from the chaos above. Employees form these little islands of safety, and they joke about that's just how leadership is, and they make the best of it. I've seen employees love their jobs inside of toxic workplaces simply because of the people they work with. It's like they've all bonded over surviving this toxic place together. It looks fine until one day it is not. And from an HR standpoint, that's one of the hardest places to be because the business is working, but you can see the cracks forming. The best small business HR pros I've seen, the ones who really understand their influence, know how to operate in this gray zone. They can't fire the CEO or force culture change, but they can redirect the energy. In my experience, I have found three distinct areas that HR can't influence, even when they don't have the power to fix things directly. Small business HR means being responsible for the culture, or what I call employee experience, even when you don't have the real authority over it. But that doesn't mean you're powerless. There are three levers you still control. The first one is language and framing. Stop trying to convince toxic leaders to be nicer. Start talking in terms they understand: risk, cost, turnover, ROI. Instead of saying people are burned out, you might try saying, "We've lost three key staff in six months, and replacing them is going to cost us $60,000." It's very easy for toxic leaders to dismiss feelings as fluff. So talking to them about how they talk to people or treat them makes it easy for them to say people just need to be thicker-skinned. And unfortunately, in this global climate we live in today, being mean in the spirit of honesty is becoming way more normalized. But they can't argue numbers. When you show them how what they are doing is impacting the business in a negative way, they are way more likely to pay attention. And that is influence. Number two is micro-culture building. Even if you can't fix the company culture, you can create micro-cultures of safety that's within your reach: onboarding, recognition, small rituals that remind people someone cares. Let me give you a few ideas we have used with clients. In the onboarding process, we started assigning buddies to help the new hire get acclimated to the environment, both the good and not-so-good parts. We send emails from HR, the buddy, and the manager before their first day, talking about how excited we are to have them on board. For peer recognition, we started allowing peer shout-outs, asking for peer shout-outs in Slack or the all-hands meeting and in the monthly newsletter. Doing something like that gives you another data point to highlight based on what is being recognized because it's usually positive behaviors. We also started collecting data in exit interviews, which leads me to the third lever you can pull, even when you don't have influence, and that is data storytelling. In HR, we're accustomed to documenting everything, but that literally needs to be everything: patterns, turnover data, engagement feedback, and then turn that into a story. A few years back, I worked on-site with a client who had a very toxic vice president. The CEO and I had had many conversations about this person, but since they had been with him since the beginning, he was really reluctant to give this person any feedback and certainly not let him go. This VP took a two-week vacation one summer and truly unplugged. No email, no checking in. He was just gone for two weeks. And you could feel his absence in the office in a positive way. The literal buzz was palpable. People were talking, they were happy, they weren't scared of who he was going to come after next. I noted all of it. At the end of the month, after he had been back for two weeks, I asked leaders to give me metrics on productivity, and the numbers did not lie. Those two weeks he was gone were the most productive across the entire month and really in the business for a while. When I showed the CEO and he asked what was different for those two weeks, I told him that the only difference was that this leader was not in the office. It was an eye-opening moment for him that made him start asking questions of others and being open to more feedback. And eventually, we were able to provide this leader feedback and then move them out of the business because they were not interested in changing. You don't want to go to a founder and say this place is toxic or this leader is toxic. You want to say, "Here's the evidence of what's happening, and here's the cost we're paying." Now, maybe you don't have the relationship with that CEO where you can bring stuff like that up, like I did, but hopefully you have a relationship with some leader who's on your side, some leader who sees what's happening like you do, and you can bring your evidence to that person, and then they can bring it to the CEO. Sometimes this has to be like a chess match a little bit. With every move you make, a strategic component of the overall goal. Those three things I just mentioned alone can really start shifting perception. They may not change the entire vibe, but they can influence how others respond. If you're trying to figure out exactly where you have that kind of influence in your business, we've got a resource that can help. It's called HR's Influence Map, where you can and can't make culture change. It's a quick guide that shows which levers are within your control and which aren't, so you can focus your time and attention where it actually matters. You can grab that free download in the show notes. Now, what if the issue is not a vice president, but it's the actual CEO? When the person at the top is toxic, HR can feel trapped. You're watching the culture decay in real time, but your audience is the person causing it. And while well-meaning consultants will just go tell you to find another job, I understand that that is sometimes easier said than done. If that sounds familiar, our blog post this week digs into exactly that. It's titled "When the CEO is the Toxic Employee," and I have Acacia HR Business Partner Marie Rolston walking you through how to navigate that dynamic without burning out, including how to protect your credibility, build allies, and know when it's time to walk away. That link is also in the show notes. Because the truth is, you can't fix people who don't want to change, but you can build credibility that helps you navigate the situation with confidence. Here's the part we don't talk about nearly enough, and that's the personal cost. Trying to heal a toxic workplace from the middle is absolutely exhausting. You absorb everyone's pain, you mediate tension, and you start to doubt whether you're making a difference at all. If you've ever felt that, you are not alone. What I've learned is that your success isn't measured by whether the culture transformed overnight. It's measured by whether you stayed true to your values while trying. When you lead with integrity, even when no one else is, people notice. And that becomes the foundation of every healthy culture you'll help build in the future. Before we wrap up, if you're listening and wondering, "Where do I even start in HR?" you want to make sure your HR is in check first. We have an HR readiness assessment. It's a quick diagnostic to help you see where your small business HR function is strong and where it might be at risk, especially in areas that can breed dysfunction or toxicity if left unchecked. For you to be credible, your HR practices have to be buttoned up. You can't convince a CEO there is a problem in their business if there are errors on paychecks or benefits aren't being administered properly. That link is in the show notes. You'll get a personalized report with clear next steps, so you know exactly what to tackle first. All right, so here's the takeaway. Dysfunction can be fixed. Toxicity can sometimes only be managed. And HR can influence both, even without authority, by leading with data, consistency, and heart. If you've ever been the HR person trying to fix something you didn't break, I see you. Keep showing up. Keep modeling what healthy looks like, because even in the most toxic places, one person's integrity can shift the room. Thanks for listening to the HR Connection. If you found this episode helpful, I would love for you to like, subscribe, follow, forward this to another small business leader who might need it, who might feel alone. I'll see you next time.